Live in France? Or Italy?

Which country would you want to live in? 

Americans and other Anglophones tend to idealize both countries.  But it's easy to idealize from afar and almost impossible to do so when you're there, particularly when you're there a lot and get to see the country up close, warts and all.

Let' do a brief word association test for the Positives and Negatives of each.

POSITIVES

Italy:  sunny, sensuous, sexy, fun-loving, romantic, great food, nice wines, history, culture, fashion, style, beautiful cities, gorgeous palaces, the sea, happiness.

France: sensuous, sexy, fun-loving, romantic, great food, great wines, history, culture, fashion, style, beautiful cities, gorgeous palaces, the sea, happiness.

Gee, how odd.  The lists are almost identical. We imagine what we want.

Now let's look at some of the negatives we associate with each country.  In which you could say we see the ills we are blind to at home.

NEGATIVES

Italy:  Corruption, Mafia/Camorra/Berlusconi, garbage, absurd bureaucracy, bribery, laziness, inefficiency, tainted food/faked wine, pizza, spaghetti, military ignominy, trains that no longer run on time.  (Just to name a few.)

France:  Outlandish fashions, overelaborate food, too-expensive wine, 35-hour work week, disdain for Anglophones, snootiness in general, odd cars, amorality, military ignominy, general pomposity and excessive self-regard.

Interesting, no? The perceived positives are so similar as to be slight variations on a theme.  But the negatives are where the real distinctions lie: France is the country of snooty snobs and hoity-toities, Italy the land of loutish criminals and cheats where nothing works well.

You consider such things when you have hypothetical discussions on where you'd like to live, Italy or France.  Especially if you can't afford that old estate in Tuscany or that chateau in Aquitaine. 

First question:
 

Do you want to live somewhere you'd feel comfortable and safe?  A place that's well-ordered and that functions? (Who wouldn't say yes to that?)  Where would that be and why?

Second question: Do you want to live somewhere you'd feel welcome and even become a part of society?  Or would you wish to remain ever the outsider?  Would it be easier to become part of things in France?  Or in Italy? 

Third question: Which version of the Latin culture and "lifestyle" would suit you better?  This includes things like the food, the wine, the language, the pace of life, the local climate, and the ease of escape when absolutely necessary. 

There are many more such questions.  Only you could answer them on your interior questionnaire. 

But I have to tell you that Ken has me sort of convinced -- it would be a hell of a lot easier to live in France than in Italy.  Life can be very hard for the average person in Italy. It's less of a struggle in France.  It seems to be more comfortable in France.  It' a gentler existence there.  Things function better and so forth. 

Still.  France isn't Italy, is it.
   

Comments

[Dr. Debs]

I was going to be an Italian historian. Then I spent 3 months in Italy. I fell down the stairs at the Medici library, was dry-humped by a young man on a bus in Rome before I realized that if you are a woman traveling alone by public transport you really do want to be next to a nun or a mother with a baby, and ran straight into the bureaucracy of the Vatican Library which could only be got around by drinking copious amounts of espresso with Jesuits. This of course does not take into account my appalling pronunciation of Italian, which is marginally worse than my appalling pronunciation of French.

Still, I loved living down by the Pyramid in Rome, the bizarre opening hours, the gelato (!), the wine (!!), the little trattoria that made fantastic chicken by the park, and trying to figure out why they say Tide detergent "TEE-day" and Time magazine "Time."

I am now sadly learning to accept that it's London or the US for me. I am too WASP to handle anything other than monarcho-socialist bumbling or the appearance of speed without actually moving forward. But I loved Madrid...maybe I could learn Spanish??

[Strappo]

Debs, that all sounds more like an adventure than a trial/tribulation. And if you spent more than a week in Madrid, you might have the same kinds of experiences/sensations as in Italy, no?

It's hard to say.

But after a couple of days in the lovely Loire, Ken's niece Rachel said, "I'd like to live in France. Everything is so neat and clean, and it's so pretty, and the people are so friendly. It's nicer than at home." This from a 15-year-old who doesn't exactly live in a modest area in NJ. (Oh, wait. It's still NJ.)

[Ronald]

T,
given the chance i will not choose either France or Italy...its a good place to visit, do some travelling and touring but to live...absolutely no..

but i'll consider between Switzerland or Japan where everything is even cleaner, neater, more organized, where everything is on time...

[michele colline]

I moved to Italy for the challenge of adapting to another culture, the history and ancient architecture, the lifestyle, and the wines. Now I want to live in France for the challenge of adapting to another culture, the history and ancient architecture, the lifestyle, and the wines.

[Paolo B]

Greetings. I read your blog from some time and being an Italian who lived also in France (and now I am in the US - don't ask) I think I can say my point of view. It's not a matter of Italia or France it's a matter of Mediterraneo.
The northern you live the more you have to fight the nature in order to survive so you need to be organized. The southern you live the more you can adapt and being pampered by THE SEA, like a good friend or a mamma premurosa. There is an outstanding article written by Abert De Benoist on an Italian newspaper and in Vino al Vino today's blog. It can be resumed by a single phrase of Franco Cassano: "il mediterrano e' dove si e' potuto dire con piu' purezza si al mondo" = Mediterranean is the place where with the higest purity in your soul you can say yes to the world".

[Laura Browning]

I totally agree with Paolo about being close to the Sea. There is something in the food, wine, and people close to the met. in the summer. However, I do love Paris, and I could never give up Tuscany in May. Ummm...I guess I choose to be obnoxiously rich and have an estate in both. Why not?

[gianpaolo]

I'm an Italian who lived one year in France, and now that I'm married to an english woman I go to England quite often.
There isn't a perfect place to live, and after all happiness doesn't depend on where you live, but I have to say that I'm more and more upset about my country, expecially when I think at the potential of it. Think to what Italy has given to the world in the past. I know that it could do much better than it's doing right now. I don't know how, but it seems to me that the last 20 years have been crucial for Italy and we have completely missed the opportunity that other Countries have taken - Spain, France, UK - to become more modern, clean, comfortable to live in. I don't know how, I don't why, but it happened, and we still aren't moving, it's like the Titanic, with the orchestra singing whilst the boat is sinking when you look at the politicians in our country. I don't blame them too much though, as they are the expression of the people that have elected them. In fact, I think that people in Naples have to blame themselves before throwing all the blames to their inect, corrupted, inefficient politicians. Why have you(we) elected them?

[Strappo]

Gianpaolo, you've expressed this to me before but never more poignantly than here. Thanks very much for sharing this with your blogging mates.

I've said many times that Italy's people are so much better than their system that it's a scandal. I'd suggest that they vote for the clowns that rule them because the system is rigged that way. Maybe if everybody stayed home on election day? No, that wouldn't work either. What is the solution besides a vast change in the political culture, which I guess is to say the society itself. But how? And when?

[Strappo]

@ Ronald: I don't like the food.

[Sarah Newton]

"amorality" - LMAO! Isn't that a reason TOO live in France?

Im making this decision right now! Well kinda, I do live in Venice but the opportunity to move to either London or Paris has come up.

I'd choose France, but i've lived (do live) in Italy!